By gisette
And they grow...
Submitted on Sat, 2008/10/25 - 11:16pm
Last updated on Sat, 2008/11/08 - 9:15pm
Posted in
And some more growing...
Age 4.5 weeks.
They've gotten yellow, especially the red mini stuffing pepper, to left. From here on, I've added a dab of Flora Gro liquid nutrients to cut down on the yellowing. The plant on the right - mini red bell, not a "stuffing" pepper - suffers the yellowing a lot less than the other two. But the nutrient mix, using old semi-molten "Large" tablets from an AG 1-season Master Gardener kit, really weren't quite right for these plants. For water, I've mostly used distilled or collected rainwater. (I'm writing this in late October, not copying everything from the original glog.)
Age 5.5 weeks: looking better greenwise.
At this point they have buds! 
Unfortunately, I did not prune them at age 5 weeks, thinking they were such small plants, they probably wouldn't need it. They did... So I got advice at age 6.5 weeks, and then pruned lightly.
Age 6.5 weeks: before and after light pruning (thanks to PVtx for advice!) This is ~45 days, and these were possibly advertised as harvest in ~60 days.
Age 7.5 weeks: Alas, most of those flowers didn't set fruit. I decided they needed a heavier pruning, which set me back quite a ways budwise. Though I later realized two flowers on the left plant did take and I just couldn't see them yet. Very frustrating to cut off all the buds, just when the plants were setting fruit.
Age 8.5 weeks: got very unhappy with the pruning setback and started the reflective draping experiment. Here they've grown back, but just putting buds right back in the lights again.And the middle plant wasn't growing back very quickly. At this point, I had them growing inside the reflective drapes most of the time for only about 2 days.
It turns out two of the flowers did set peppers before the great pruning, though:
Age 9.5 weeks: I took all but one side's reflective drape down, because the most stunted pepper plant (the one in the middle) was getting very curly-topped, and sort of ingrowing instead of going up. So the extra light helped a lot, but so much draping somehow didn't. Probably too much heat & lack of air circulation. Finally has buds developing again...
Closeup of the two pepper fruits. They're only supposed to grow to 1-2", so they're maybe nearing full size. But I want them to turn red, because I only had about 5 of each of these seeds, and need to save some mature seeds from them. Saving pepper seeds is apparently very easy.
Age 10.5 weeks: Having gotten thoroughly sick of the pruning game, I ordered an Aerogarden Deluxe. It arrived this week and I moved the whole pepperplex (plants, grow surface, bowl) into the new Deluxe base+lights. They're happier, I'm happier. The middle yellow pepper is still playing catch-up - it has a flower, but still no peppers. In fact, it's thinned-out in-a-pot not-enough-light brother already has 3-4 peppers set... But, the bigger red peppers have set several more fruit each, and everyone has flowers.
The oldest fruit are probably at their final size, but I want to pick them red (mature), so I can save seeds, and possibly mail them back to the kind persons who gave these hard-to-get seeds to me in trade.
The next day, I had to strip the bowl because the pump had conked out. (Man, it is a pain to work on the pump with 3 full-grown plants on the deck... Broke a lot of roots.) This is a new ceramic-core pump AG sent me in July, to replace a dead original-style plastic core pump. Got that going again, though its thin plastic axle is worryingly bent.
But replaced the water/nutrients with a new GH Flora series formulation. (See forum post.) I think this'll work better. I'd been growing these up to now with AG Master Gardener Large tablets. But - the mini stuffing pepper leaves kept yellowing, so I was always adding a teaspoon of Flora Grow here and there to green up the leaves. Which I believe was exacerbating the need-to-prune problem - regardless of how far down the stem a new branch was formed, the dratted things only bud when they get right back up to the top of the plant. I may even cut the grow/micro component even further next time I replace the nutrients, depending.
(2 votes)
Fri, 2008/11/07 - 10:10pm
#2
I'm contemplating pepper murder.
In my Deluxe, the middle yellow mini stuffing pepper, was the very first to flower. That was 6 weeks ago. But it set no fruit. Then came the pruning debacle, where only two set fruit survived, on the red mini stuffing pepper. Now, that red stuffing pepper has the original two, plus at least 5 new fruit, though no flowers open at the moment. Five weeks since setting the original two peppers, and they are still dark green... not wildly impressed with its productivity. 
The red mini bell on the right, who's always been happiest in the AGs, has at least 18 fruit developing, and lots of flowers open every day, and it seems most flowers leave a fruit. The middle yellow pepper's culled brother (aka runty potted pepper) has... still only 3 fruit, but they are fruit developing, and lots of flowers.
But the middle plant in the AG still has zero fruit. Flowering madly, but no fruit ever sets.
I'm thinking the two plants that are bearing, and my outrider experiments, would be a much better use of light. Bye, mini yellow stuffing pepper. 
Sat, 2008/11/08 - 5:26pm
#3
Poor li'l pepper, gone off to gr.. browner pastures, huh? I have two different kinds of peppers, The Sandia Chile is full of fruit, the Super Chile is always blooming but has just two tiny chiles finally showing. I've been shaking it and even use a brush on the flowers. I get lots of pollen flying but very little production. Guess some plants are more persnickety than others.
Oh, just noticed something... when I go to the plain ol' Reply window all I can see is the thread's first post. Is there a way to make it show more messages or at least the last one, since that's the one a person is usually replying to. And, I only get a preview button, don't see the save button until I preview it, then it shows itself.
Sat, 2008/11/08 - 9:11pm
#4
Definitely, Bruce. Part of this experiment was to figure out which of these miniature peppers grew best in the Aerogarden. The mini red bell (right plant) wins by a mile. The red & yellow mini stuffing peppers go yellow with too little nutrients; curly with too much heat; thin with too little light; not productive no matter how happy.
12.5 weeks: Latest pix, death of a pepper plant, but many new fruit set, especially on the mini red bell. Someday, those two eldest fruit on the mini red stuffing pepper shall ripen! Granted I've seen little evidence that this is true. But I have faith. 
Those fruit set 5 weeks ago...
Pruned the mini red stuffing pepper (left) to even out heights, and maybe get it to flower more. Once the middle plant was removed, the other two sorely needed the Deluxe trellis - leaning on each other was keeping them upright. This was one of the features that decided me on the Deluxe over the pro200 - included trellis and 1-year Master Gardener kit, both very useful. The pro200 was trellis-ready (no trellis included), and only 1 season MG kit & more herbs. I have plenty of herb pods...
Sun, 2008/11/09 - 10:47am
#5
They are looking great, nice and green now. They're liking that new nutrient level looks like. Funny, I never realized your peppers were so tall. Are the plants mini or just the fruit? And I see the lightbox is working again. Nice!
Sun, 2008/11/09 - 1:01pm
#6
Thanks, Bruce! Well, I think they're liking the new nutrient levels... But the left plant isn't flowering much anymore, and they do have brown leaf tips. I probably ought to dump & refill today with a fresh mix. Getting hard to do that, though, since the more heavily-laden pepper really needs support now, or it falls over.
I've been letting the plants grow taller in the Deluxe, because they form buds at the current top, regardless of how low on the plant a new branch begins. But they're only supposed to be 18-24" tall, I think, as well as bearing 1-2" fruit. I'm going by the descriptions here, though I'm not entirely sure they're the same plants.
Sun, 2008/11/09 - 1:27pm
#7
That's the only problem with the liquids, you have to keep dumping the water every two weeks. Or, with my tomatoes (and probably your peppers), it should be done every week.
Once they are tall it's a real pain to do as they do like to fall over.
As for your brown leaf tips, it could be lack of nutes, or, it could be too much... I won't mention that you need a truncheon to sort this out, oops, sorry - I just did.
They do look green and very healthy though, nice work.
Sun, 2008/11/09 - 1:51pm
#8
Peat - interesting, that it could be lack of nutes, too... Sigh. Yes, shall have to dump & refill then. 
It's been 9 days. Really hard on the plant to fall over, though. 
Yeah, even though the leaf tips are brown, and some leaves dropping... By and large, if the plants are still growing and that green and setting fruit, it's hard to conclude they're suffering too bad from nutrients. Could be just a hangover from having overfed them a bit last week, but they're sorting it out... Maybe.
Fri, 2008/11/14 - 6:54pm
#9
13 weeks: Ate my first three peppers. Since I was diagnosing my "yellow" pepper turning black, discussion is on the potted pepper page.
Fri, 2008/11/14 - 9:04pm
#10
They're looking good but boy would a truncheon come in handy. I use a 5/8" piece of plastic tubing to syphon my tomato nutes into a gallon jar. Just tilt the bowl forward a little to break the water pump contacts and suck on it 'til it syphons. Mine is only about 18" long so I usually get a little in my mouth if I'm not real careful. A 3' piece would be great.
I could just unplug it but that screws up the light timer and I like having a little tilt forward to collect debris.
Reminds me, check out my Poor man's truncheon thread in a few minutes. It works, to a point.
Fri, 2008/11/14 - 10:06pm
#11
Yeah, siphoning is how I emptied my tomato growbox to flush it this summer. Not a lot of other options, unless I wanted to rig a garden hose across my bedroom, and have hose water drenching the main deck below. (I did not. Want to. ) To thin the nutes on the Deluxe, I just used a turkey baster to draw out a couple cups this time - the plants don't really look ill. The brown edges on the lower leaves could be holdover from my over-feeding them last week, plus the fact they really don't get much light down there.
Sun, 2008/11/16 - 5:12pm
#12
13.5 weeks: Setting a few more fruit, but most flowers just dropping (lots of flowers this week). Watering without nutrient solution for now - think they got a bit over-fertilized. But the mini red bell is also pretty well laden - over 20 fruit?
Mon, 2008/11/17 - 10:27pm
#13
13.5 weeks: My first pepper is finally turning red - yay! Kinda looked like it in yesterday's picture, but now I'm sure - it's reddening. It's been 6 weeks since that fruit set, I think. May it redden fast, now that it's finally started!
P.S. Oh - true weirdness. One of the very small peppers on the mini red bell, is developing a black smudge. It's on the side, not bottom. The little fruit is only about 1/2" so far, one of the newest ones at the top of the plant. The fruit otherwise looks perfect. I didn't take a flashlight to inspect all 20-odd fruit carefully, but this is the only blackened pepper I see on that plant. The baby pepper looks flawless, aside from the black smudge - the black isn't soft or indented or anything.
This is not the same variety as runty potted pepper. The seed didn't come from the same source. And it's growing in the Aerogarden Deluxe. Though they both got some of the same nutrient solution, that's a far cry from saying they grew on the same nutrients - runty potted pepper got a small watering dose, and mini red bell lives in a bath of the stuff. The plant is happy, and setting new fruit and flowers all the time, though losing more unfertilized flowers lately. The green-to-red transition goes through dark (green+red=brown, after all...), but that fruit is nowhere near ready to ripen.
I have no idea what these black bits mean. But this weakens my crossbred theory on runty pepper.
Tue, 2008/11/18 - 7:10pm
#14
Those black spots have me totally bumfuzzled but maybe it's a transition phase, dunno. I've never seen anything like that on the peppers we've grown but we grow totally different kinds. I like the ones that make your brow sweat and clean out your sinuses. 
They are looking really nice!
Tue, 2008/11/18 - 8:40pm
#15
Huh. Ran into this comment on the web (searched on "green bell pepper turning black", which to my surprise, actually worked...)
Sometimes my green bells will turn virtually black on part of the pepper. Doesn't appear to affect them negatively, they just have a black pigment, usually on the part exposed to more sunlight. I just figure they developed a tan!
That actually makes sense - some of the peppers got a brief sunburn...
Sun, 2008/11/23 - 8:56pm
#16
14.5 weeks: Ate a red pepper, and the last of the blackened "yellow" peppers, before discarding that potted plant. Next time, I'll let the red pepper get darker before eating it. Flavor still not so good... Didn't bother to save any seeds from those two. These two remaining red pepper plants have many-many little peppers on them. Maybe 15-20 on the left plant, and 25-30 on the right, and still lots of flowers. I've been pruning the tops. The Deluxe could go a little higher, but the bottoms of the plants aren't getting much light... Moved a cheap $10 Walmart growlight down to the windowsill to give them a little more under-light.
Mon, 2008/11/24 - 11:03pm
#17
Hmm, with all Peat & Bruce's talk of pH & nutrient testing again, I started feeling guilty because I hadn't tested or refreshed the pepper nutes in 1.5 weeks... And their leaves are looking kinda crispy.
The pH was: somewhere south of 5.5. The Brita-filtered tap water? Around... 6.0. 7.2 was normal tap water, and not even my normal tap water is that alkaline at the moment.... And the Brita filter removes some of the crunchy calcium carbonate. Which is alkaline.
Sigh. Dumped and refilled pepper fluids again. The solution measured around 6.0... I added some pH drops I have (pH 12.5), but umpty drops doesn't make a great deal of difference in a gallon of water. Dumped & refilled the pro100 lettuce while I was at it - they haven't been looking so healthy. But didn't dump & refill my downstairs lettuce & mustard greens, which are about the happiest-looking AG lettuce crop I've ever had. The coleus & snapdragon colors are a little dimmer than times past, so added a little pepper solution to them. Next weekend I may just dump their water and go back to using a single Master Gardener Large tablet for them. The snapdragon flowers were prettier on that concoction, and the coleus colors stunning.
The AG nutrient tablets really are convenient, and their pH buffers work wonders. Without a truncheon, I'm not at all sure I'm doing better with the liquid nutes than I was by using the AG tabs & enriching them when the plants started to yellow... Well, except for the brassicas & downstairs lettuce. Which truly are looking best-ever.
Tue, 2008/11/25 - 12:29pm
#18
That's the problem gisette, you really need that truncheon to sort things out. My tomatoes, after only one week, are down from EC 2.4 to 1.2 - the pH drops from 6.3 to 5.0 
It's quite a drop, I hate to think what yours are after 1.5 weeks - crispy leaves sounds about right unfortunately. The AG tablets are much easier to work with, they don't seem as prone to wander around in the pH department. But, as you know, the GH nutes (accurately measured) will leave the AG tablets standing.
The drops you are using, are they proper hydro ones. I'm a little confused as you started with pH 6.0 and now seem to have pH 12.5 Am I getting things mixed up? The hydro pH down drops should knock that gallon down with only minimal drops. I'm going to guess at 12 drops to drop pH 7.5 down to PH 6.3
I hope that truncheon is still on your Xmas list?
Tue, 2008/11/25 - 12:46pm
#19
The 12.5 pH drops are for people to drink, at about 8 drops per glass of water. No, I don't have any hydro pH drops.
Yeah, I guess I really need to dump & refill the peppers every week. Definitely a hassle.
No, not much of anything is on my Christmas list. Business is not good.
Tue, 2008/11/25 - 9:17pm
#20
I'm sorry to hear business is bad Gisette, I'd hate to have a business right now doing most anything, it's ugly. Booze, cigs and casinos seem to be doing quite well, though, people are strange... I don't see a quick end in sight. A year would be a miracle, two or three is believable but four or five years sounds plausable. We're more like the '30s than anything since then. This recession/depression is worldwide and hit every segment of business, not just a segment or two like the last few. My heart goes out to you and everybody else trying to eke out a living nowadays.
You guys made me feel guilty - I've yet to change all my mixes in the peppers, tomatoes or herbs since I started them on GH Flora a month ago. I've watched the EC and PH levels every few days and made adjustments but haven't done a complete change. The carribean peppers of some sort (not chiles <sigh>) are doing great as are the herbs and I'm leaving them alone with the original mix. I just changed out the tomato's mix tonight, they were doing OK but not great, we'll see what happens.
In a month, starting with three fresh, full AGs I've gone through over 2 gallons of bloom mix, half gallon of grow mix and about 2 gallons of plain 6.3 PH water plus a ml of micro now and then. The EC and PH levels have changed quite a bit over the month, almost to dangerous levels. It can't be fun without the meters so I'd also suggest you dump, clean and start afresh with tabs augmented with a LITTLE liquid if necessary. The tabs aren't perfect but they do perform well with little or no tending.
Tue, 2008/11/25 - 9:55pm
#21
Yeah, I think you're right. Just dumped & refilled last night, so ... this coming weekend, I'll probably switch back. I think the plants do better on the fresh refill with the liquid nute recipes you worked out for me, at least if they weren't poisoned by their previous brew... But the AG buffers do seem a whole lot better at keeping them on the beam. And the peppers were pretty happy on that regime, enriched here and there with liquid nutes.
I think we have a better grasp at how to resuscitate an economy now than we did in the '30's. Though... the prolonged recessions in Japan and other places suggest ... maybe not. I just hope policy will target the economy and all-people, instead of getting too specific. Some of the proposals I've heard - the governors of CT, NY, NJ getting together and asking the feds for $12,5k for each laid-off financial industry salaried type, for instance. Or bail out the auto industry in particular. Why, pray tell, them? Because they're especially inept and thus more deserving than millions of small business owners? And we'll revalue mortgages for everyone whose mortgage is now worth more than their house - because they borrowed 95% of the value. Yet if all you've lost is the equity you paid out in cash, the bank is fine, so you just lose? I do not like the "bailout" lobbying direction... Restoring liquidity to a frozen financial system made sense. But this handout-lobbying thing is scary.
Wed, 2008/11/26 - 2:58am
#22
I'm glad you're going back to tabs, we do this for fun and relaxation and it just isn't there for you any more. I do it because it gives me something to pass time and experiment on - a little science and engineering together with new toys. I enjoy that aspect as much as actually growing things and it drives Maere absolutely nuts.
It's ironic that this whole thing started when Amazon had the Classic for $100 and I bought her one as a surprise gift (we do valentines year round). She took back her herb garden last week, I showed her how to use the truncheon and add either grow mix or plain water but I think in a couple of weeks she'll go back to the tabs, she adores her AG and the herbs but she didn't sign up for a chemistry project.
Your disposition will improve quite a bit going back to the tabs, too I'm sure. Enjoy!
Wed, 2008/11/26 - 12:42pm
#23
Heh. I've been cranky, eh?
Well, tabs should help that. But also I'm getting a bit bored with these peppers. It's been 3.5 months now? And I thought they'd be harvestable in ~65 days. Maybe lettuce and herbs and flowers are more my speed.
Wed, 2008/11/26 - 4:55pm
#24
Now I never said you were cranky but I could sense you were getting pretty frustrated and this should be fun, not another aggravation. You might recall I almost killed everything twice before I got a truncheon and was about ready to yank everything and start over. I can also relate because the green chiles I've been so proud of turned out to be some sort of carribean pepper nowhere related to what I want and I'll never know exactly what they are. I got seed yesterday so I'll know exactly what the he** I'm growing for a change.
Wed, 2008/11/26 - 5:27pm
#25
Had to quit and move for a bit before I got finished... You're too good, too inquisitive and too intelegent to limit yourself, besides your new Deluxe opens up all sorts of possibilities so set your limits where you want. Going back to the tabs will make things lots easier no matter what you grow - you know the nutes and PH are close and have the Flora mixes to tweak if needed, the best of both worlds IMHO.
Enjoy! That's why we do this. And quit being so darn cranky. 
Wed, 2008/11/26 - 7:06pm
#26
LOL, Bruce!
How'd you find out your chiles were Caribbean peppers, anyway? Did I miss that story? I recall they were awfully short for what you thought they were, though.
Wed, 2008/11/26 - 8:35pm
#27
How'd you find out your chiles were Caribbean peppers, anyway? Did I miss that story? I recall they were awfully short for what you thought they were, though.
Isn't it funny how Caribbean/Carribean is spelled and pronounced? When I lived in San Juan I was determined to speak the language and pronounce things properly, it was definitely not Tex-Mex. Even there half the people pronounce it Ca' ri be an and half pronounce it Ca rib' ean.
Wed, 2008/11/26 - 9:25pm
#28
Heh. You got me to look it up. I spelled Caribbean correctly. I actually pronounce it both ways, depending...
Sat, 2008/11/29 - 9:03pm
#29
15.5 weeks: Nothing exciting. Many many (45-50?) peppers on board, none particularly close to ripe. Replaced all the liquids on Monday, and they've got a bit more light underneath from the $10 Walmart growlight (on the windowsill left). After I took this picture, I put the lights down a notch. Which puts them very close to the top leaves, but, the plants will get more light that way...
Next step is giving up on liquid nutrients for this and going back to AG Large nutes + liquid enrichment as needed. But, it hasn't been a week yet since their last flush & fill.
Sun, 2008/11/30 - 12:08am
#30
Aphids. Just after I wrote all those picture-entries, I noticed aphids on my greens outriders, and yup, they're on the peppers, too.... First detergent water spraying done... Well, that may be part of why they've been looking peaked.
Age 11.5 weeks: This week, been switching over from AG Large nutrient tablets, frequently enriched with a teaspoon or so of Flora Grow, to Peat & BB's pure GH Flora series nutrients for the peppers, and adjusting the brew. Started with:
8.5 ml micro / 4.2 grow / 12.7 bloom - they got a bit yellow. Though strangely, it was the right (mini red bell) instead of the left and center (mini stuffing) plants that yellowed this time.
After 2 days, added +3 ml micro / grow / bloom to see if they did better. But, they showed signs of being overfertilized, a little browning and curling of leaves, though nothing serious.
So after another 2 days, dumped all that, and refilled with 9.5 ml micro / 4.2 grow / 12.7 bloom, which Bruce is reporting great results with.
And the regular weekly snapshot of progress, 2 days after going to Bruce's new formula:
Still no fruit convincingly set on the middle mini yellow stuffing pepper. The left red stuffing pepper, with the oldest fruit, has added a few. The right mini red bell has set 8 new fruit - and this one was the one that seemed stressed this week by the nutrient changes.